IR, X10, or just contolling things in general.

[mchiper]

I think the following info relates to hacking, DIY, and automation..
What do you think one can do coming from this point of vierw.

A byte consists of 8 hex digits.
That means that 8x16x2=256 unique codes that can be contained in a BYTE.
You will find the number 256 arising in most automation/control contexts.
Hmmm... I wonder what that means wrt automation, and computer control.
And X10, IR, Radio, ect. etc. controllers?
Thru the air, water, wire, or the ether?
Using light, sound, RF, microwave, or punched cars, wood chips, or .... :)

I replaced all of my IR controllers with an $10 RCA "System Link4" (It says)
I think it's really good for more.. but handles
- SAT+AUX - Means "Whatever else you got", I guess.
- Cable (Box)
- TV
- VCR
Those buttons are merely to help you keep track of what device they control.
They don't really mean a thing.. It handles 4 IR "widgets".
The Fn keys send codes the "widget" is "expected" to understand.
They may, or may not, and what they mean to the "widget' is another matter.

So, if you got more than 4, buy two, and tape on your own labels :)
Or take them apart, and build your own "master" controller. :)
From there it's a snap to create custom key pad fns, etc etc.

---------------------- The reference (Off Topic) thread from another NG -------------------------

Ogden Johnson III <oj3@cpcug.org>, wrote: Why can't one device control all my entertainment devices, open my garage door, pay for my latté, transmit my medical history to a new doctor, etc. Despite *every* one of my "entertainment" devices coming with their own "Universal" remote controller, they *aren't*.

Paul Hantom <phant@direct.ca_DeleteThis> wrote: Sure they are. They are universal in that they control something on everything. Apparently you want the *comprehensive* universal remote control. ;-)

Ogden Johnson III <oj3@cpcug.org>, wrote: Every single one of them includes some thing(s) *it* needs that the others don't have corresponding button(s) for. Ergo, one end table is devoted to a collection of neatly labeled remote controls - TV, Comcast cable, DVD/VCR, ... .

Paul Hantom <phant@direct.ca_DeleteThis> wrote: The type of remote controls you want do exist. It is just they are very high end, in the $1,000 territory. Here is one such:http://gizmodo.net/archives/002259.phpThey usually have touch screen displays where you can program the graphics for the buttons as well as the functions and macros. And those not up to programming them can take advantage of the keeners posting their work to web sites.

Ogden Johnson III <oj3@cpcug.org>, wrote: !?!?!?!?! $1,699.99 !?!?!?!?!? Ouch! Forget I said anything. I'll stick with the end table full of labeled remotes.

--
Ray

[Chuck Y]

mchiper wrote: I think the following info relates to hacking, DIY, and automation.. What do you think one can do coming from this point of vierw. A byte consists of 8 hex digits.
Computer scientology.


A BYTE consists, these days, of 8 bits. (yes, machines have
spoken different word sizes in the past, I've used 18bit bytes,
etc). It's after 1986 now.

8 bits in a byte. 1 or 0. 2^8. 256 combinations.
A hexadecimal value can represent 4 bits (16 combinations. 16=hex).
4 bits is called a "nibble" (or a nybble).
4A would be 0100 1010 (4 A).

That means that 8x16x2=256 unique codes that can be contained in a BYTE. You will find the number 256 arising in most automation/control contexts. Hmmm... I wonder what that means wrt automation, and computer control. And X10, IR, Radio, ect. etc. controllers? Thru the air, water, wire, or the ether? Using light, sound, RF, microwave, or punched cars, wood chips, or .... :) I replaced all of my IR controllers with an $10 RCA "System Link4" (It says) I think it's really good for more.. but handles - SAT+AUX - Means "Whatever else you got", I guess. - Cable (Box) - TV - VCR Those buttons are merely to help you keep track of what device they control. They don't really mean a thing.. It handles 4 IR "widgets". The Fn keys send codes the "widget" is "expected" to understand. They may, or may not, and what they mean to the "widget' is another matter.

On the other hand, these remotes don't have a jog wheel for VCRs or
scrolling through a DVD. These don't have the menu buttons for dealing
with DVDs, laser disks or the new 2010 movie crystals.

What DOES work?
Well, not having them all be fixed buttons would be a plus.
A mix of buttons and screen, or just all "soft buttons" (touch screen)
would work mostly. Physical feedback is important, but likely less so
for folks born post 1995. It's habit.

A touch screen lets us paint it with what we want. There are lots
of bad user interfaces out there. There's a field that covers good
use of icons and feedback and other Human Interface Design considerations.
http://www.askbruce.com is always a fun read. Bruce worked the
the big interface inventors (that wouldn't include MS).

So now we have input. we need output.
IR? Great. AV devices use a 40Khz modulated signal. Line of sight.
RF? Fine, no AV devices, but there are interfaces to convert. Choose
your carrier and signals across it and good luck.

So $800+ devices, to me, are just insane. I can buy a nice Palm
for around $100. This is a large memoried general purpose computer
with a touch screen interface and a large enough screen. It's just
got the wrong IR interface. That kills me. Put a 40KHz carrier
IR for AV devices and you can sell on to a billion people as a remote
(that happens to have a phone book, calendar, etc and enough memory
to store 40,000 device codes and be updatable via a dock).

There ARE IR modulators that attach to headphone jacks (audio hardware
is easy enough to control) and things like that.

$10 gets you crap that leaves you needing the original remotes lying
around.

$1100 dollars for a remote means you really should be evaluating your
priorities in life. Gang up with some neighbors and hire an exrta
teacher for that.
So, if you got more than 4, buy two, and tape on your own labels :) Or take them apart, and build your own "master" controller. :) From there it's a snap to create custom key pad fns, etc etc. ---------------------- The reference (Off Topic) thread from another NG ------------------------- Ogden Johnson III <oj3@cpcug.org>, wrote:Why can't one device control all my entertainment devices, open my garage door,pay for my latté, transmit my medical history to a new doctor, etc.Despite *every* one of my "entertainment" devices coming with their own"Universal" remote controller, they *aren't*. Paul Hantom <phant@direct.ca_DeleteThis> wrote:Sure they are.They are universal in that they control something on everything.Apparently you want the *comprehensive* universal remote control. ;-) Ogden Johnson III <oj3@cpcug.org>, wrote:Every single one of them includes some thing(s) *it* needsthat the others don't have corresponding button(s) for.Ergo, one end table is devoted to a collection of neatly labeled remote controls -TV, Comcast cable, DVD/VCR, ... . Paul Hantom <phant@direct.ca_DeleteThis> wrote:The type of remote controls you want do exist.It is just they are very high end, in the $1,000 territory. Here is one such:http://gizmodo.net/archives/002259.phpThey usually have touch screen displays where you can program thegraphics for the buttons as well as the functions and macros.And those not up to programming them can take advantageof the keeners posting their work to web sites. Ogden Johnson III <oj3@cpcug.org>, wrote:!?!?!?!?! $1,699.99 !?!?!?!?!?Ouch! Forget I said anything.I'll stick with the end table full of labeled remotes. -- Ray

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <zGacb.563907$o%2.250530@sccrnsc02>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
mchiper wrote:
I replaced all of my IR controllers with an $10 RCA "System Link4" (It says) I think it's really good for more.. but handles - SAT+AUX - Means "Whatever else you got", I guess. - Cable (Box) - TV - VCR Those buttons are merely to help you keep track of what device they control. They don't really mean a thing.. It handles 4 IR "widgets". The Fn keys send codes the "widget" is "expected" to understand. They may, or may not, and what they mean to the "widget' is another matter.
On the other hand, these remotes don't have a jog wheel for VCRs orscrolling through a DVD. These don't have the menu buttons for dealingwith DVDs, laser disks or the new 2010 movie crystals.

And I've seen controllers that had 100 or so buttons, and
needed a magnifier and a sharp pointed object to operate.
That is NUTS

A device that colicated is probably poorly designed,
and needs it's own controller.

My microwave really doesn't need buttons for microwave pizza,
popcorn, potatoes, and frozen dinners either.
What DOES work?Well, not having them all be fixed buttons would be a plus.A mix of buttons and screen, or just all "soft buttons" (touch screen)would work mostly. Physical feedback is important, but likely less sofor folks born post 1995. It's habit.

I have a TI calculator with a bright display, and 40 tactitile buttons
that seem about perfect. Just add an LED.
I want it to let me give names to my devices, and then scroll thru them
to select the one I want to use.
Maybe a subfunction button to scroll thru device functions.
I think the on/off up down keys should handle what any function needs.
I may tolerate some keys dedicated to std CaBLE TV VCR functions.
Just like what I have on my Universal remote.

It could double as a all house controller too.
With IR signal distribution going to all rooms in the house.
Each controlled device would have an IR receiver, switch,
and or rheostat.

It would not replace the Master controller which would allow
for programming events send commands to devices
and receive remote commands / inquiries.

Or a PC to allow Supervisor functions, and maintenace

Might consider an IR to RF converter to extend control
to out buildings, exterior lights, pools, and such.
--
--- Still my favorite quote ---
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity;
an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

[Chuck Y]

mchiper wrote: In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <zGacb.563907$o%2.250530@sccrnsc02> Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:mchiper wrote:I replaced all of my IR controllers with an $10 RCA "System Link4" (It says)I think it's really good for more.. but handles- SAT+AUX - Means "Whatever else you got", I guess.- Cable (Box)- TV- VCRThose buttons are merely to help you keep track of what device they control.They don't really mean a thing.. It handles 4 IR "widgets".The Fn keys send codes the "widget" is "expected" to understand.They may, or may not, and what they mean to the "widget' is another matter.On the other hand, these remotes don't have a jog wheel for VCRs orscrolling through a DVD. These don't have the menu buttons for dealingwith DVDs, laser disks or the new 2010 movie crystals. And I've seen controllers that had 100 or so buttons, and needed a magnifier and a sharp pointed object to operate. That is NUTS A device that colicated is probably poorly designed, and needs it's own controller.

Or needs the UI designer beaten and fired.

Too often, in hardware and in software, the interface is designed
by the programmer. This usually turns out badly.

Billions of VCRs blinking "12:00" are a testiment to poor user
interfaces.

A user can understand and remember the function of a fairly finite
number of buttons. It's larger than you'd think, but its layout
and nearby buttons make a difference. Modal interfaces can be
a nightmare, but they can also be done well. Multiple devices,
or rather multiple user goals, goes well with this.

If my alleged remote has "play a DVD" mode, I want volume for
the sound system right there, I want many of the DVD buttons
there ("menu" might change the onscreen remote menu as well because
I'm changing modes).

Device designers could help us a lot with power functions that
can ALSO "hear" on and off rather than only the "power" toggle.
It can handle BOTH pretty easily, but to automatically turn something
on, I now need to know that it's on. Probes for this can cost me
$40-$50 over not needing this. "TV-ON" could be so easy.
Let the cheapo remote send the "TV POWER TOGGLE" signal still. THat's
fine.


Now lets look at the back of the stereo.
TOSlink lets me send, over coax or fiber, full audio in digital
format. Audio that's 2 44KHz 16bit samples. Not much bandwidth.
Over that same "wire", I could toss several other things. Signals,
video, 2 directions of sound (4 channels), etc.

Imagine a receiver that had one little fiber to each device. Now your
done. Mom can handle that.

Okay, now the receiver is "smart". It can send a (perhaps large) packet
to another device to control it.
Hell, keep the AV separate and let me chain from one device to the next
with a 3 pin serial cable. When MIDI came in and keyboard (and later
effects boxes and lighting controls etc), the music world changed.

Tap a foot pedal and my digital delay changed modes, and another
reverb box changed and, for a home studio, volumes of different
instruments changed. These signals were all passed in a long chain
at 32.5kbaud.

Trigger a macro from a controller unit and watch the TV, DVD and sound
system turn on, set to a preset volume, the TV will kick over to it's
component video inputs etc.

Right now only the remote can do that (by sending a gang of IR signals
one after the other.

If I put that intelligence in a computer disguised as a DVR (aka a Tivo)
then I win.

A tivo could just have IR outputs to scatter around; my fantasy
of vendors allowing an input to just INSIDE their IR decoding
circuit - to the demodulated signal bus - will never be realized.
Hell, Sony couldn't even choose one for their own devices.

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <YUjcb.570812$uu5.94034@sccrnsc04>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:

OK Chuck,
Maybe you met your match, or I met mine, Who's to say :)
Lets hear a come back my IR in house control network.

When it comes to TIVOs I'm seeing garbage.
What I wnat to see is the signals that are used to control
the 5 minutes or so of "station breaks". (i.e -Time out for a message from ....)
Who want's all that crap on disk, tape, or DVD.. ?
mchiper wrote:
And I've seen controllers that had 100 or so buttons, and needed a magnifier and a sharp pointed object to operate. That is NUTS A device that complicated is probably poorly designed, and needs it's own controller.Or needs the UI designer beaten and fired.
That doesn't help me.
Too often, in hardware and in software, the interface is designedby the programmer. This usually turns out badly.

More often than not by an idiot no matter what his/her persuasion.
Billions of VCRs blinking "12:00" are a testiment to poor user interfaces.

I just checked mine, after 3 or 4 power failures,
It still reads Daylight savings time (correctly).
I leave my battery operated desk clock to help me figure out
"Is it Spring ahead and Fall back" or what? :)
- It's Spring ahead ... :)
A user can understand and remember the function of a fairly finitenumber of buttons. It's larger than you'd think, but its layoutand nearby buttons make a difference.
I think you are coming up with another excuse for a poor design.
There are things that fit you hand, and things that don't.
Modal interfaces can be a nightmare, but they can also be done well.
I presume that what I was describing is "modal", it seems to fit.
Multiple devices,or rather multiple user goals, goes well with this.

That IS what we are trying to accomodate isn't it.
In the hand held (but NOT do everthing imaginable) controller.
If my alleged remote has "play a DVD" mode,I want volume for the sound system right there,
But at the same TIME would make NO sense at all..
- The same volume control button CAN do either or.
I want many of the DVD buttons there
Again.. You can have All the DVD buttons there
But NOT all at the same TIME..
("menu" might change the onscreen remote menu as well becauseI'm changing modes).
On screen should, in my view be, "On the TV or PC screen".
All I need then is an Up Down enter button, and
and alphanumeric key pad on the remote.
(Still containable in my about 100 key controller.)
Device designers could help us a lot with power functions thatcan ALSO "hear" on and off rather than only the "power" toggle.
Now you want to go into bonnie ville.
If I'm going to talk to a device I should at least be
in the SAME room as the device..
And be in a position to talk to and hear it
- It has NOTHING to do with the controller.
It can handle BOTH pretty easily, but to automatically turn somethingon, I now need to know that it's on.
That's a DIFFERENT kind of controller..
You could / should be able communicate with
directly, over networks (phone is included),
as well as your remote.
(Probably want to be near TV/PC display when you do.)

<snip probes>
Now lets look at the back of the stereo.TOSlink lets me send, over coax or fiber, full audio in digitalformat. Audio that's 2 44KHz 16bit samples. Not much bandwidth.

I haven't given audio enough thought to have an opinion.
But I'll give one any how.
IMHO audio and video go together..
TVs are CHEAP. Hifi speakers are CHEAP.
I'd look to the AV distribution system to take care of that job.
Over that same "wire", I could toss several other things. Signals,video, 2 directions of sound (4 channels), etc.
It's a A/V thing why NOT..
Imagine a receiver that had one little fiber to each device. Now yourdone. Mom can handle that.

Naw one fiber to ALL devices..
It's to send receive IR control signals..
Okay, now the receiver is "smart". It can send a (perhaps large) packetto another device to control it.Hell, keep the AV separate and let me chain from one device to the nextwith a 3 pin serial cable. When MIDI came in and keyboard (and latereffects boxes and lighting controls etc), the music world changed.

You are very confused..
Tap a foot pedal and my digital delay changed modes, and anotherreverb box changed and, for a home studio, volumes of differentinstruments changed. These signals were all passed in a long chainat 32.5kbaud.

Very very confused.

<snip> more confusion
--
--- Still my favorite quote ---
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity;
an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

[Chuck Y]

Well, you've not put up any useful into on this list that I've
seen, but what the hell, a sounding board.


mchiper wrote: In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <YUjcb.570812$uu5.94034@sccrnsc04> Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
When it comes to TIVOs I'm seeing garbage. What I wnat to see is the signals that are used to control the 5 minutes or so of "station breaks". (i.e -Time out for a message from ....) Who want's all that crap on disk, tape, or DVD.. ?
Well, on disk it's cheaper to record it and skip it than it
is to try to detect it. losing show is worse than getting a
commercial.
mchiper wrote:Too often, in hardware and in software, the interface is designedby the programmer. This usually turns out badly.
....Billions of VCRs blinking "12:00" are a testiment to poor user interfaces. I just checked mine, after 3 or 4 power failures, It still reads Daylight savings time (correctly).
And it only took 20 years to add the functionality of a $2 clock
chip and a battery. Wow!
(actually, since 95 or so, they've been able to catch time sync
from the TV - usually PBS).

A user can understand and remember the function of a fairly finitenumber of buttons. It's larger than you'd think, but its layoutand nearby buttons make a difference. I think you are coming up with another excuse for a poor design. There are things that fit you hand, and things that don't.Modal interfaces can be a nightmare, but they can also be done well. I presume that what I was describing is "modal", it seems to fit.
Multiple devices,or rather multiple user goals, goes well with this. That IS what we are trying to accomodate isn't it. In the hand held (but NOT do everthing imaginable) controller.If my alleged remote has "play a DVD" mode,I want volume for the sound system right there, But at the same TIME would make NO sense at all.. - The same volume control button CAN do either or.

I have trouble with either your english or your thought process.
I don't generally care about "manage the VCR" mode. Remotes
that just manage the VCR give me that.

I *do* care about "I'm watching a movie" mode.
That means on the screen, I want volume, lighting, the basics of the
VCR (stop, FF, REW, play, etc, but NOT input select, or
the editing features of my VCR, or setting the timer - those
I'll get in the "show me all VCR mode").

I want many of the DVD buttons there Again.. You can have All the DVD buttons there But NOT all at the same TIME..
Um, again?

("menu" might change the onscreen remote menu as well becauseI'm changing modes). On screen should, in my view be, "On the TV or PC screen". All I need then is an Up Down enter button, and and alphanumeric key pad on the remote. (Still containable in my about 100 key controller.)

Wow, so if I want to make it louder, I have to interrupt the
movie and navigate with my 100 key (keyboard?) remote to do that?
ick.
Device designers could help us a lot with power functions thatcan ALSO "hear" on and off rather than only the "power" toggle. Now you want to go into bonnie ville.
Huh? je ne comprende pas in either lang. If I'm going to talk to a device I should at least be in the SAME room as the device... And be in a position to talk to and hear it - It has NOTHING to do with the controller.

Really? I wanna hit the "house off" button that sets
the alarm, turns off the coffee machine, and turns off the TV
and other AV things. The TV has a toggle, so my device would
have to detect if it was on or off to ensure that it was off.



Laying a ground work...Now lets look at the back of the stereo.TOSlink lets me send, over coax or fiber, full audio in digitalformat. Audio that's 2 44KHz 16bit samples. Not much bandwidth.Over that same "wire", I could toss several other things. Signals,video, 2 directions of sound (4 channels), etc.Imagine a receiver that had one little fiber to each device. Now yourdone. Mom can handle that. Naw one fiber to ALL devices.. It's to send receive IR control signals..

Right... chained together? I've debugged coax ethernet. I've had
christmas lights that work on a chain. I've had a midi device eat
it in the mdidle of a chain. There's a reason midi and ethernet
use a STAR configuration.

So back to well reasoned:
A central device, lets call it THE RECEIVER connects by a single cable
to each device.

From another view, each device has two connections: Power. RECEIVER.

New device? two connections. It passes the grandma test.

If I must, the antoher cable, one for control data (a 3 pin 1/8
"headphone" jack does this just fine).
Okay, now the receiver is "smart". It can send a (perhaps large) packetto another device to control it.Hell, keep the AV separate and let me chain from one device to the nextwith a 3 pin serial cable. When MIDI came in and keyboard (and latereffects boxes and lighting controls etc), the music world changed. You are very confused..
Again? English? you mean confusing? (the gerund form of the verb).
Tap a foot pedal and my digital delay changed modes, and anotherreverb box changed and, for a home studio, volumes of differentinstruments changed. These signals were all passed in a long chainat 32.5kbaud.


One controller controls many many devices. They could all SPEAK to
each other via a standard protocol. Not a control buss developed
by a vendor that only speaks to 1 vendors things, but a UNIVERSAL
protocol that all the vendors spoke.

Suddenly, my korg keyboard could control another vendor's synth (when
they were separate). Or "PRESET 15" could set the sounds on my synths,
set the effects on my Yamaha and Korg and other rack boxes. And it
can talk to light boards to set up stage lights for a certain song.

In a studio, it can set volumes.


How would this model work in a home?
If we could do this with home AV, turning on the receiver and setting it
to VCR could cause the (HK) receiver to turn on the (Sony) VCR and set
my equalizer to whatever settings I have for AV (different settings than
for listneing to music).

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <fc1db.434437$Oz4.239206@rwcrnsc54>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
Well, you've not put up any useful into on this list that I'veseen, but what the hell, a sounding board.

I guess that's because you aren't in "comprehension mode".
As in:Modal interfaces can be a nightmare, but they can also be done well.
I don't have a clue what a "modal interface is so I offered: I presume that what I was describing is "modal", it seems to fit.
Multiple devices,or rather multiple user goals, goes well with this.
And I agreed that controlling multiple devices is what we are talking about.
I have NO clue what multiple user goals means..
More than one user with multiple goals?
Or One user multiple goals?
So I passed ...
And said: That IS what we are trying to accomodate isn't it.
Tried to limit the scope with: In the hand held (but NOT do everthing imaginable) controller.
If my alleged remote has "play a DVD" mode,I want volume for the sound system right there,
I agreed, but with the following condition: But at the same TIME would make NO sense at all.. - The same volume control button CAN do either or.

Now you complain about MY English?
Amd MY thought process..
I have trouble with either your english or your thought process.

But this gibberish is over the top..I don't generally care about "manage the VCR" mode. Remotesthat just manage the VCR give me that.I *do* care about "I'm watching a movie" mode.
You want you FUCKING controller to KNOW what YOU are doing..
YOU don't know what YOU are saying.
You controller can only be MORE fucked up than you are.That means on the screen, I want volume, lighting, the basics of theVCR (stop, FF, REW, play, etc, but NOT input select, orthe editing features of my VCR, or setting the timer - thoseI'll get in the "show me all VCR mode").

You can get that by pushing ONE button on your controller.
We will label it SHOW me.
No mode changes are required.I want many of the DVD buttons there Again.. You can have All the DVD buttons there But NOT all at the same TIME..Um, again?

The buttons have meaning wrt to the MODE you
put the controller in.
UP and DOWN volume keys should make sense wther controlling
DVD volume, VCR Volume, etc etc..
Channel UP DOWN makes sense for
DVD playlist, or any other List type mode.
("menu" might change the onscreen remote menu as well becauseI'm changing modes).

UP DOWN Channel would be come UP DOWN Cursor
when in SHOWME mode..

IF you don't get it NOW, you never will..
<snip>
--
--- Still my favorite quote ---
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity;
an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <fc1db.434437$Oz4.239206@rwcrnsc54>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
("menu" might change the onscreen remote menu as well becauseI'm changing modes). On screen should, in my view be, "On the TV or PC screen". All I need then is an Up Down enter button, and and alphanumeric key pad on the remote. (Still containable in my about 100 key controller.)

Let's see If I can explain this so even you can understand it.

You have:
1. A Remote (a controller).
2. A PC (a controller)
3. A TV (a device)

They all have screens.
The Remote screen is only a 1 line at a time sceen.
The others are Full Screens.

Put the remote in VIEW MODE
Put the PC in VIEW MODE
No matter where you enter information..
PC keyboard or remote,
It's displayed on ALL screens at the same time.

Program the sucker to your hearts delight.
If you don't like what it does for you, TOUGH.
--
--- Still my favorite quote ---
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity;
an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

[Chuck Y]

mchiper wrote: In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <fc1db.434437$Oz4.239206@rwcrnsc54> Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:>("menu" might change the onscreen remote menu as well because>I'm changing modes).On screen should, in my view be, "On the TV or PC screen".All I need then is an Up Down enter button, andand alphanumeric key pad on the remote.(Still containable in my about 100 key controller.) Let's see If I can explain this so even you can understand it. You have: 1. A Remote (a controller). 2. A PC (a controller) 3. A TV (a device)

I have a remote (perhaps a PDA with a touch screen with buttons
that can change dynamically, depending on the task i'm trying
to achieve).

I have a TV - which is showing the content I want - not the
remote's data, it's showing a movie. And nobody wants to stop
the movie while the screen displays a control screen.

I have a computer (which can control, and listen, and be a gateway
between protocols (IR signal received triggers X10 or some output). They all have screens.
TV shows the TV content. The remote shows the remote buttons
and state of what you're doing - for the person using the remote,
not for everyone.

Computer had never had a screen. The Remote screen is only a 1 line at a time sceen.
Ick.
The others are Full Screens. Put the remote in VIEW MODE Put the PC in VIEW MODE No matter where you enter information.. PC keyboard or remote, It's displayed on ALL screens at the same time.
Ick.
And why would I want a screen on the control computer.
Mine has a couple serial ports and ethernet and power.
No video cards, no keyboards. hell, it's in a room
that I really don't want to hang out it anyway.
Program the sucker to your hearts delight. If you don't like what it does for you, TOUGH.

But if you want to do it through a 105 key controller
(I'd call it a keyboard) you can. Hell, you can type
in commands in Forth for all it matters. It's bad
user interface design, but if it's only you, fine.

We're done. Perhaps I futily thought we might get a
conversation about HCI design, but it's netnews.

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <Yhadb.594797$YN5.436480@sccrnsc01>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
mchiper wrote: In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <fc1db.434437$Oz4.239206@rwcrnsc54> Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:>>("menu" might change the onscreen remote menu as well because>>I'm changing modes).>>On screen should, in my view be, "On the TV or PC screen".>All I need then is an Up Down enter button, and>and alphanumeric key pad on the remote.>(Still containable in my about 100 key controller.) Let's see If I can explain this so even you can understand it. You have: 1. A Remote (a controller). 2. A PC (a controller) 3. A TV (a device)I have a remote (perhaps a PDA with a touch screen with buttonsthat can change dynamically, depending on the task i'm tryingto achieve).

PDA escapes me at the present time, Twas back in my vic20 days.
Was it Lancaster, stuff?
I have a TV - which is showing the content I want - not theremote's data, it's showing a movie. And nobody wants to stopthe movie while the screen displays a control screen.

I don't see a need to stop it, or even use it,
Those are choices you make from your PC, and or Remote.
I have a computer (which can control, and listen, and be a gatewaybetween protocols (IR signal received triggers X10 or some output).

Sounds good to me, all except the X10 crap.
They all have screens.TV shows the TV content. The remote shows the remote buttonsand state of what you're doing - for the person using the remote,not for everyone.Computer had never had a screen.

I ran a BBS.. None of my nodes had screens either.
I also had 2 screens on my "server".
It let me watch what was happening in TWO places at the same time.
I colud also long on as SYSOP using my at work PC.
I "cloned" the set up in a room my company gave me at our club.
It ran unattended (remote controlled).
The Remote screen is only a 1 line at a time sceen.Ick.

It's an IR remote that I'm still designing.
The others are Full Screens. Put the remote in VIEW MODE Put the PC in VIEW MODE No matter where you enter information.. PC keyboard or remote, It's displayed on ALL screens at the same time.Ick.
IF I so choose....
And why would I want a screen on the control computer.Mine has a couple serial ports and ethernet and power.No video cards, no keyboards. hell, it's in a roomthat I really don't want to hang out it anyway.

Because it's a control computer?
Program the sucker to your hearts delight. If you don't like what it does for you, TOUGH.But if you want to do it through a 105 key controller(I'd call it a keyboard) you can. Hell, you can typein commands in Forth for all it matters. It's baduser interface design, but if it's only you, fine.

No.. I'm limiting the keys to caps text & numbers (on the remote)
Hmmm Only one more key for LCase, I'll think on it.
We're done. Perhaps I futily thought we might get aconversation about HCI design, but it's netnews.

What would you like to discuss..
I'm learning as I go..
--
Ray

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <zGacb.563907$o%2.250530@sccrnsc02>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
mchiper wrote: I think the following info relates to hacking, DIY, and automation.. What do you think one can do coming from this point of vierw.

I snipped the jokes I replaced all of my IR controllers with an $10 RCA "System Link4" (It says) - SAT+AUX - Means "Whatever else you got", I guess. - Cable (Box) - TV - VCR Those buttons are merely to help you keep track of what device they control. They don't really mean a thing.. It handles 4 IR "widgets". The Fn keys send codes the "widget" is "expected" to understand. They may, or may not, and what they mean to the "widget' is another matter.

The point is that these very inexpensive IR controllers.
Have the ability to send up to 256 commands to 256 addressable devices.

I tested my RCA IR controller and TV IR receiver.
I found that signals bounce from almost all directions
from 30 ft or more away and can still be detected by my TV.

To me that means once I get a signal, I can use an IR repeater
to send it hundreds of feet through an optical "conduit",
To an optical repeater in each room, that has IR devices.

It occurs to me that a piece of fiber or plexiglass "conduit"
could send these controll signals to 256 devices anywhere in my house.

If I included a low voltage (12 vdc power supply line) with the
optical conduit the repeaters don't need a battery.

How easy and cheap can it get?

Now I need to design the IR controller to make it all work.
It tear my $10 RCA controller apart for parts and hacking purposes.
I will pick up a old TI programmable calculator for it's key pad,
and who knows what else.
I will vist my junk pile for parts from all sorts of IR driveway, and
sound, light, timer, activated widgets..

And I will design and build an All house Automation system.
Using my Controller, and/or PC /and TV(s)..
With an integrated (optional)
All house AV system, and PC network.

I think - No ONE thing does ALL things well...
Unless you have VAST amounts of money to burn.
AND can tolerate the Horrible inconveniece and constraints.
--
Ray

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <iu4envgr5teeunkuo0gb9bujovjmu6sdor@4ax.com>
mchiper <notnuts@yahoo.com>, wrote:
The point is that these very inexpensive IR controllers.Have the ability to send up to 256 commands to 256 addressable devices.

Duh...
Or 255 devices, one gets 65535 commands to play with.
Duh..
Another device handles 256 on/off "devices".
Duh.. It's a programmable lighting controller.
It wants yet another channel. and a special screen to see
what's on or off and when (Not at the remote though).

How many devices does one need to control?
In a HOME? Or a factory...
--
Ray

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <Yhadb.594797$YN5.436480@sccrnsc01>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
mchiper wrote:
Let's see If I can explain this so even you can understand it. You have: 1. A Remote (a controller). 2. A PC (a controller) 3. A TV (a device)I have a remote (perhaps a PDA with a touch screen with buttonsthat can change dynamically, depending on the task i'm tryingto achieve).


In Msg ID: <qifbnvc0no5c18v1gpthboqrr99vmmpgoq@4ax.com>
mchiper <notnuts@yahoo.com>, wrote:
PDA escapes me at the present time, Twas back in my vic20 days.Was it Lancaster, stuff?

http://www.ercim.org/publication/Ercim_News/enw48/woodward.html

I was mistaken, but not for long, must have been PL( something else ).

Not bad, I'll use it as a benchmark.

BTW...
I like the look of it. And the overall design.
But not the "doall" concept.
And the stylus touch screen is a turn off, for me.

I have an open mind.
I think I''ll try to take what's good.
If you like you can buy into the whole bag of worms. :-)
--
Ray

[mchiper]

In alt.home.automation, Msg ID: <Yhadb.594797$YN5.436480@sccrnsc01>
Chuck Y <Newsboy@September2003.snew.com>, wrote:
I have a remote (perhaps a PDA with a touch screen with buttonsthat can change dynamically, depending on the task i'm tryingto achieve).

Now that I've seen a PDA..
Just out of curiosity, would you consider an LCD display
and a mouse a better input device for a PDA?

--
Ray