help request crossing house codes x10

[Michael]

Hi all,

I am requesting help and comments on the following scenario. The main issue
is crossing the house code boundary, IE, I have more than 16 groups.

I am gradually installing all of the modules (X10 and X10 pro) at this time
to control my lights and ceiling fans. I have a bunch of the x10 mini
controllers which have to be set to different house codes because of the 16
device code limit.
The next phase of my project will be to install 2 X10 Pro inline appliance
modules on each of my ceiling fans (one to control the florescent lights and
another for on/off fan control). I will be putting in the x10 wall switch
units to manually command the inline modules. (I used the word switch even
though this device wouldn't actually switch, or cut current, to the fan.
Instead it would issue on/off commands to the inline modules)


Goals:
1. I want to have the mini controllers to be more functional. At this time
I have to continually change house codes to control the desired module since
the modules are across boundaries defined by the house code limit of 16
devices.

2. I want to do this inexpensively.

3. Don't want to have to pull any cable.

4. I want to have only one module interfacing the home wiring and PLC
(Preferably have the PLC hook to the computer for programming and plug
straight into the AC outlet to receive and issue X10 commands.)

5. I don't want to switch protocols, that is I don't want to lose the
investment of all of the modules I already bought. I don't need any of the
newer fancy commands since I'm using mostly appliance modules and will be
getting inline appliance modules so I don't think I will need any of the
fancier devices.

Idea: I am thinking that I need a PLC. My idea would be that the Wall
Switches and Mini Controllers would input to the PLC using house codes A - G
(Not that I have that many inputs but this lets me make a logically laid out
design) In this design I'm hoping to define a separate house code for each
room. Each room would have a mini controller and wall switches with their
own house code. The PLC would then send out commands to various modules
based on the ladder logic which I would program into the PLC. Example: In
the Entrance I would have a mini controller. These 4 buttons (I know there
are 8 but to keep it user friendly I would be using only the first 4
buttons) would input to the PLC as X10 inputs A1 - A4. The Light
"switches" would be A5-A6. The next room would be B1-B6. This pattern would
continue for each room. Regardless of what room (house code zone) I would be
in, the PLC could control any of the modules, even if they weren't on the
same house code. I know I could set each room to a different house code and
have each room covered with the 16 available addresses, but that doesn't let
me be in the bedroom, for example, and turn on porch flood lights or turn
off living room lights ect ect. At this time the layout I have is very
un-user friendly since the house code has to be rotated on the mini
controller so very often. Further on down the line I want to add motion
sensors to automatically turn on lights. This really will need the PLC.

I have a working knowledge of PLCs and programming them. I know that a PLC
would easily handle this but I am clueless of sources for inexpensive "home"
models. The PLCs I have dealt with have been expensive industrial models
which had hard wired inputs. (I want to use the x10 signals to "input" into
the PLC not run low voltage cable.)

Could someone point me in the right direction? I looked at the x10 web site
and looked at their computer interface. I got the impression that the
software was very limited to the amount of logic I could store and I
gathered that I would not be able to cross the house code boundary (at least
without buying extra stuff)

Also Could anyone tell me if there is one inline x10 type module that will
switch 2 different sets of outputs for the ceiling fan? What about my idea
of the 2 separate inline modules and a wall unit that doesn't actually
"switch" the power but sends the on/off signals.


If your still reading this post I sincerely thank you since I realize it was
rather lengthy. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.




Michael
If emailing me, please remove the .REMOVETHISPART
You are welcome to email me but be forewarned I only check this account
every 2 weeks

[albown]

"Michael" <nonyabusness740.REMOVETHISPART@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2l39b.445115$Ho3.72391@sccrnsc03... Hi all, I am requesting help and comments on the following scenario. The main
issue is crossing the house code boundary, IE, I have more than 16 groups. I am gradually installing all of the modules (X10 and X10 pro) at this
time to control my lights and ceiling fans. I have a bunch of the x10 mini controllers which have to be set to different house codes because of the
16 device code limit. The next phase of my project will be to install 2 X10 Pro inline appliance modules on each of my ceiling fans (one to control the florescent lights
and another for on/off fan control). I will be putting in the x10 wall switch units to manually command the inline modules. (I used the word switch even though this device wouldn't actually switch, or cut current, to the fan. Instead it would issue on/off commands to the inline modules) Goals: 1. I want to have the mini controllers to be more functional. At this
time I have to continually change house codes to control the desired module
since the modules are across boundaries defined by the house code limit of 16 devices. 2. I want to do this inexpensively. 3. Don't want to have to pull any cable. 4. I want to have only one module interfacing the home wiring and PLC (Preferably have the PLC hook to the computer for programming and plug straight into the AC outlet to receive and issue X10 commands.) 5. I don't want to switch protocols, that is I don't want to lose the investment of all of the modules I already bought. I don't need any of
the newer fancy commands since I'm using mostly appliance modules and will be getting inline appliance modules so I don't think I will need any of the fancier devices. Idea: I am thinking that I need a PLC. My idea would be that the Wall Switches and Mini Controllers would input to the PLC using house codes A -
G (Not that I have that many inputs but this lets me make a logically laid
out design) In this design I'm hoping to define a separate house code for each room. Each room would have a mini controller and wall switches with
their own house code. The PLC would then send out commands to various modules based on the ladder logic which I would program into the PLC. Example: In the Entrance I would have a mini controller. These 4 buttons (I know there are 8 but to keep it user friendly I would be using only the first 4 buttons) would input to the PLC as X10 inputs A1 - A4. The Light "switches" would be A5-A6. The next room would be B1-B6. This pattern
would continue for each room. Regardless of what room (house code zone) I would
be in, the PLC could control any of the modules, even if they weren't on the same house code. I know I could set each room to a different house code
and have each room covered with the 16 available addresses, but that doesn't
let me be in the bedroom, for example, and turn on porch flood lights or turn off living room lights ect ect. At this time the layout I have is very un-user friendly since the house code has to be rotated on the mini controller so very often. Further on down the line I want to add motion sensors to automatically turn on lights. This really will need the PLC. I have a working knowledge of PLCs and programming them. I know that a
PLC would easily handle this but I am clueless of sources for inexpensive
"home" models. The PLCs I have dealt with have been expensive industrial models which had hard wired inputs. (I want to use the x10 signals to "input"
into the PLC not run low voltage cable.) Could someone point me in the right direction? I looked at the x10 web
site and looked at their computer interface. I got the impression that the software was very limited to the amount of logic I could store and I gathered that I would not be able to cross the house code boundary (at
least without buying extra stuff) Also Could anyone tell me if there is one inline x10 type module that will switch 2 different sets of outputs for the ceiling fan? What about my
idea of the 2 separate inline modules and a wall unit that doesn't actually "switch" the power but sends the on/off signals. If your still reading this post I sincerely thank you since I realize it
was rather lengthy. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Michael If emailing me, please remove the .REMOVETHISPART You are welcome to email me but be forewarned I only check this account every 2 weeks


Yikes,

The PLC will work, problem is to find one with enough I/O. The old shoe
boxes will only have 8-16 I/O. I guess you could get several of them and let
each do part of the job. The next level up is the rack mounted versions
probably like what you have seen or worked on. They can be pricey when
looking at the complete package. I would not even consider a PLC with out
the software to program it. Not usually included. Try automation direct to
get a feel for what you are going to spend. I have never bought from them
but have friend that have.

Once you have determined the amount of I/O you need then you can look maybe
at ebay for something that is serviceable but not cutting edge technology.
For sure almost anything will have enough power for what you want to do.

[RAllen]

Michael wrote:

2. I want to do this inexpensively.
4. I want to have only one module interfacing the home wiring and PLC
5. I don't want to switch protocols, ...
Idea: I am thinking that I need a PLC.


PLCs would work, but a PIC microcontroller might work better. You can
get them in single quantities very cheap (most under $10), they are
native X-10 speakers, there are a ton of app notes at microchip.com, and
lots of freeware for them.

A quick google search turned up
http://www.robotbooks.com/pic_microcontroller_project_book.htm

It looks like a decent intro to using the PIC and runs about $30 US.

Good luck.

Russell

[Bibman]

Michael:
Why not use and Ocelot controller? That's how I crossed the barrier. My
input devices (mini, maxi and sundowner controllers are on one set of house
codes and the outputs (modules) are on other sets. Each input runs a set of
commands to turn on and off a group of lights at preset levels. It's fairly
simple to program and very flexible.

"Michael" <nonyabusness740.REMOVETHISPART@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2l39b.445115$Ho3.72391@sccrnsc03... Hi all, I am requesting help and comments on the following scenario. The main
issue is crossing the house code boundary, IE, I have more than 16 groups. I am gradually installing all of the modules (X10 and X10 pro) at this
time to control my lights and ceiling fans. I have a bunch of the x10 mini controllers which have to be set to different house codes because of the
16 device code limit. The next phase of my project will be to install 2 X10 Pro inline appliance modules on each of my ceiling fans (one to control the florescent lights
and another for on/off fan control). I will be putting in the x10 wall switch units to manually command the inline modules. (I used the word switch even though this device wouldn't actually switch, or cut current, to the fan. Instead it would issue on/off commands to the inline modules) Goals: 1. I want to have the mini controllers to be more functional. At this
time I have to continually change house codes to control the desired module
since the modules are across boundaries defined by the house code limit of 16 devices. 2. I want to do this inexpensively. 3. Don't want to have to pull any cable. 4. I want to have only one module interfacing the home wiring and PLC (Preferably have the PLC hook to the computer for programming and plug straight into the AC outlet to receive and issue X10 commands.) 5. I don't want to switch protocols, that is I don't want to lose the investment of all of the modules I already bought. I don't need any of
the newer fancy commands since I'm using mostly appliance modules and will be getting inline appliance modules so I don't think I will need any of the fancier devices. Idea: I am thinking that I need a PLC. My idea would be that the Wall Switches and Mini Controllers would input to the PLC using house codes A -
G (Not that I have that many inputs but this lets me make a logically laid
out design) In this design I'm hoping to define a separate house code for each room. Each room would have a mini controller and wall switches with
their own house code. The PLC would then send out commands to various modules based on the ladder logic which I would program into the PLC. Example: In the Entrance I would have a mini controller. These 4 buttons (I know there are 8 but to keep it user friendly I would be using only the first 4 buttons) would input to the PLC as X10 inputs A1 - A4. The Light "switches" would be A5-A6. The next room would be B1-B6. This pattern
would continue for each room. Regardless of what room (house code zone) I would
be in, the PLC could control any of the modules, even if they weren't on the same house code. I know I could set each room to a different house code
and have each room covered with the 16 available addresses, but that doesn't
let me be in the bedroom, for example, and turn on porch flood lights or turn off living room lights ect ect. At this time the layout I have is very un-user friendly since the house code has to be rotated on the mini controller so very often. Further on down the line I want to add motion sensors to automatically turn on lights. This really will need the PLC. I have a working knowledge of PLCs and programming them. I know that a
PLC would easily handle this but I am clueless of sources for inexpensive
"home" models. The PLCs I have dealt with have been expensive industrial models which had hard wired inputs. (I want to use the x10 signals to "input"
into the PLC not run low voltage cable.) Could someone point me in the right direction? I looked at the x10 web
site and looked at their computer interface. I got the impression that the software was very limited to the amount of logic I could store and I gathered that I would not be able to cross the house code boundary (at
least without buying extra stuff) Also Could anyone tell me if there is one inline x10 type module that will switch 2 different sets of outputs for the ceiling fan? What about my
idea of the 2 separate inline modules and a wall unit that doesn't actually "switch" the power but sends the on/off signals. If your still reading this post I sincerely thank you since I realize it
was rather lengthy. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Michael If emailing me, please remove the .REMOVETHISPART You are welcome to email me but be forewarned I only check this account every 2 weeks

[Michael]

Thanks for the help Russell. Take care

"RAllen" <rallen19@cox.net> wrote in message
news:UKlbb.11148$gV.473@news2.central.cox.net... Michael wrote: 2. I want to do this inexpensively. 4. I want to have only one module interfacing the home wiring and PLC 5. I don't want to switch protocols, ... Idea: I am thinking that I need a PLC. PLCs would work, but a PIC microcontroller might work better. You can get them in single quantities very cheap (most under $10), they are native X-10 speakers, there are a ton of app notes at microchip.com, and lots of freeware for them. A quick google search turned up http://www.robotbooks.com/pic_microcontroller_project_book.htm It looks like a decent intro to using the PIC and runs about $30 US. Good luck. Russell

[Michael]

Thanks I'll look into it.
"Bibman" <Mark@radell.net> wrote in message
news:72rdb.605559$o%2.285216@sccrnsc02... Michael: Why not use and Ocelot controller? That's how I crossed the barrier.
My input devices (mini, maxi and sundowner controllers are on one set of
house codes and the outputs (modules) are on other sets. Each input runs a set
of commands to turn on and off a group of lights at preset levels. It's
fairly simple to program and very flexible. "Michael" <nonyabusness740.REMOVETHISPART@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2l39b.445115$Ho3.72391@sccrnsc03... Hi all, I am requesting help and comments on the following scenario. The main issue is crossing the house code boundary, IE, I have more than 16 groups. I am gradually installing all of the modules (X10 and X10 pro) at this time to control my lights and ceiling fans. I have a bunch of the x10 mini controllers which have to be set to different house codes because of the 16 device code limit. The next phase of my project will be to install 2 X10 Pro inline
appliance modules on each of my ceiling fans (one to control the florescent lights and another for on/off fan control). I will be putting in the x10 wall
switch units to manually command the inline modules. (I used the word switch
even though this device wouldn't actually switch, or cut current, to the fan. Instead it would issue on/off commands to the inline modules) Goals: 1. I want to have the mini controllers to be more functional. At this time I have to continually change house codes to control the desired module since the modules are across boundaries defined by the house code limit of 16 devices. 2. I want to do this inexpensively. 3. Don't want to have to pull any cable. 4. I want to have only one module interfacing the home wiring and PLC (Preferably have the PLC hook to the computer for programming and plug straight into the AC outlet to receive and issue X10 commands.) 5. I don't want to switch protocols, that is I don't want to lose the investment of all of the modules I already bought. I don't need any of the newer fancy commands since I'm using mostly appliance modules and will
be getting inline appliance modules so I don't think I will need any of the fancier devices. Idea: I am thinking that I need a PLC. My idea would be that the Wall Switches and Mini Controllers would input to the PLC using house codes
A - G (Not that I have that many inputs but this lets me make a logically laid out design) In this design I'm hoping to define a separate house code for
each room. Each room would have a mini controller and wall switches with their own house code. The PLC would then send out commands to various modules based on the ladder logic which I would program into the PLC. Example:
In the Entrance I would have a mini controller. These 4 buttons (I know
there are 8 but to keep it user friendly I would be using only the first 4 buttons) would input to the PLC as X10 inputs A1 - A4. The Light "switches" would be A5-A6. The next room would be B1-B6. This pattern would continue for each room. Regardless of what room (house code zone) I
would be in, the PLC could control any of the modules, even if they weren't on
the same house code. I know I could set each room to a different house code and have each room covered with the 16 available addresses, but that doesn't let me be in the bedroom, for example, and turn on porch flood lights or
turn off living room lights ect ect. At this time the layout I have is very un-user friendly since the house code has to be rotated on the mini controller so very often. Further on down the line I want to add motion sensors to automatically turn on lights. This really will need the PLC. I have a working knowledge of PLCs and programming them. I know that a PLC would easily handle this but I am clueless of sources for inexpensive "home" models. The PLCs I have dealt with have been expensive industrial
models which had hard wired inputs. (I want to use the x10 signals to "input" into the PLC not run low voltage cable.) Could someone point me in the right direction? I looked at the x10 web site and looked at their computer interface. I got the impression that the software was very limited to the amount of logic I could store and I gathered that I would not be able to cross the house code boundary (at least without buying extra stuff) Also Could anyone tell me if there is one inline x10 type module that
will switch 2 different sets of outputs for the ceiling fan? What about my idea of the 2 separate inline modules and a wall unit that doesn't actually "switch" the power but sends the on/off signals. If your still reading this post I sincerely thank you since I realize it was rather lengthy. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Michael If emailing me, please remove the .REMOVETHISPART You are welcome to email me but be forewarned I only check this account every 2 weeks